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 2 month character ban policy

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Megabot
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PostSubject: 2 month character ban policy   Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:29 am

Right, so it recently came to my attention that there was a policy where if you drop a character, you are banned from making another one for TWO WHOLE MONTHS. Based on how I found this out I have reason to currently believe it doesn't matter how long you've actually played the character, if you drop it you get punished. So if you're thinking of dropping old man jenkins, you better think twice about it and enjoy having that character use your slot. Or enjoy the pains of trying to rp with a character you've completely lost interest in.

So after taking my concerns to staff I thought I'd post my thoughts and concerns with this policy. I will try to stick to the one issue here but bare with me as I rant alittle.


So let's address the first fact where ANYONE will get punished for dropping their character. ANYONE. ANYONE. Doesn't matter if the character they drop has been awhile, more or less run it's course but the owner didn't want to kill them off incase they decided to pick them up again later. I mean, what good is the Vanishing if we can't use it to explain our characters disappearing and stuff? But how is this fair? This isn't fair no matter how you try to justify it. You are literally telling EVERYONE, even us vets "We want you to keep EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER you have even if you have nothing else you want to do with them!" The only way around this would be to kill them off, which requires you to find the motivation and muse to come up with a satisfying end to your character. But unlike with dropping them where you could just pick them back up if you decided to, DEATH is harder to... come back from. Unlike the Vanishing where all a character has to do is pop up and go "Hoi iM TeM!"

Anticipated Argument #1: "Letting people make and drop characters adds extra work for the mods."

Other then Kyte who I know has been working on banner stuff, I would like to point out that letting people "edit/revamp" their characters to try and make them more appealing equals the same amount of work needed to simply move a character- perhaps more work because not only do you have to unlock the thread, you have to MOVE the character app into the character creation forum so it can go through the tedious 2 approval process. So what work does this save them? None at all :3


Now let's look at this issue from a typical newbie's perspective. We were ALL new once and we all had our own different experiences as we dove into the roleplaying experience for the first time. A typical newbie would get see a movie or anime and want to make a character based off what they saw. After going through the process, they soon find it harder to consistently have the muse for their character. REGARDLESS of their reason for wanting to, they don't want to use the character and would like to try a different, possibly more unique idea based off of their initial experience. Now obviously this would be their first character.

So what happens when this typical newbie discovers they have about three options available to them with this 2 month character ban. The first option is to try and soldier on, they may rekindle their muse or they might start making progressively worse posts which adds to their frustration. It's easy for one of us Vets to continue on because we have the experience. But this typical newbie is just that, new. A typical newbie also usually is new to the whole concept of writing or rping consistently and rarely get serious enough about it to push on through writer's block. The second option is to ask a mod to let them edit/revamp the idea. I have tried this method once myself but it does not work- you can dress it up all you like, the character's core concept is still there and if it didn't appeal to you then it won't appeal to you now. And the last method is to just leave the site completely, go find a more newbie friendly site that doesn't put all of this pressure on them to make a character and stick with it, even if they don't want the character any more.

And the reason I didn't mention killing the character off is because most newbies don't consider that as an option. I don't think anyone would immediately come to that conclusion when their faced with "Do I endure using this character I have no creative energy for, or leave the site because I'm not gonna want to come back here during the 2 months I have to wait before creating a new character. There are OTHER rp forums more fun then this one I can find."

So why does this concern me so much? Because it pretty much freaks newbies out and makes it very likely that we don't get any new members that actually want to stick around long enough to develop their rping/writing skills to really enjoy it. This creates stagnation and the site slowly dies.

Just because some of you have high standards for characters, doesn't mean you should force EVERYONE to try and conform to that standard. Especially if we're talking about new members and keeping the site alive and fun.

if you really MUST deter people from dropping their characters, atleast make it so the policy works on a 3 strike rule and punish the people who repeatedly dropping their characters. Atleast then when one of us vets want to put one of our characters away for when we have the muse to use them instead of forcing us to kill them off just to free up one of our slots.

Also, 2 months? Are we banning people or trying to keep them from dropping characters? How is that at all reasonable? It's just someone dropping a character, not posting up offensive images or going around verbally assaulting EVERYONE on the site. Chill.

If you must have this policy, turn it back to like a couple weeks- a month EXTREME tops depending on the frequency of dropped characters.

Thank you for putting up with my ranting and taking the time to consider what I said <3




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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:46 am

The first thing I'd like to address here, and any other mod can correct me if I'm wrong... the two month "ban" isn't the right word. You can only drop a character if they've been around for at least two months. Once they're dropped, you can app another one right away. There's a few reasons that this rule is in place.

First, it's to stop people from making new characters every week. We've all seen those apps that end in frustration and require all kinds of tweaks right away and a serious review. It's frustrating for the mod staff to look at characters from the same rp'er three times a week. Especially when I went through the effort of balancing an app just for it to be dropped the next week.

Second, it's to encourage people to make better characters. Sometimes we all lose muse, I understand that more than anyone here, but to be honest the trick to getting it back is to keep writing and find something new with the character. Once you get them involved in something more, you'll get your muse back, and if by the end of the two months you don't have it back then go ahead and drop it.

Lastly, when you know you'll have the character for at least two months you're going to make a better character. This helps everyone. You'll be less likely to lose muse if you took time to plan a character instead of making it on impulse. The people you're rping with will have a better time because they're actually rping with a character that is complete and dynamic. It's a quality control. To be honest, I'd rather everyone have 1-2 complete and interesting characters than 4 impulse ones they made based off a show. I dont know

Anyway, that's my opinion on it.

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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:05 am

I'm watching Mr.Robot again so I'm on my phone, pardon the lack of content.
I pretty much agree with everything Bloo said, it's exactly what I told you through PM, however I didn't realize we weren't on the same page. If I'm correct you think that you have to wait 2 months after dropping a character to make a new one, this is not the case. The character you made has to be around for 2 months before you drop them, once you drop them you are allowed to pick up a new character right after that.

Example just in case I wasn't clear, again I'm watching TV as we speak XD .
Say I see this bomb trailer for a new show (like Mr.Robot) and I want to make a character similar to Elliot. I have an open spot so I just go ahead and throw him together. Now I enjoy him at first, but I realize how hard it is to have a regular dude that can just hack so I don't want him anymore. Now I have to wait 2 months before j can drop him. After I have him for two months I can drop him and pick up the next character I like.

That's the kind of situation we're avoiding. I suggest (for new members) to roleplay in the chat or via pm to get a feel of a new character. I actually did that with Garnet because I wasn't sure if I could do the character justice.
That's all I have to add.

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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:26 am

This does not change the issue I have with this problem. I won't pretend I know what ever new member thinks. But more often then none I've seen them take the easiest, less stressful way out and never come back. Standards too high?

Besides the damage it could do to getting new members that actually stick around, the problem I have with the whole thing is that it doesn't do anything to actually help the issue you're trying to prevent. How is it helping to tell new members "You make this character and your stuck with it for two months got it?" It's like playing a video game and a message box comes up AFTER asking you if you're sure you wanted to do that, and asks you if you're SUUUUURE you wanted to do that.

There is no actual attempt being made by anyone to try and help the new member. As a staff member my first concern when reviewing a profile should not be "how long will this one stick around?" It's my job and regardless of how many there are they need to be reviewed. If it doesn't work out then fine, I'll take the profile down too.

Creating a character that you stick with takes alot of trial and error. How do you expect someone with little to no experience rping to be able to make a "fully fleshed" character their first time here? Also, where's the fun in that? Why does a character have to be fully fleshed out to be good? Isn't part of the fun of rping fleshing out that character?

Yes I know, if they stuck with the character- flesh out. Blah blah card games blah. If they don't like what they have they won't really be trying to flesh them out. If you're not physically attracted to someone, you're never going to be physically attracted to that person. Character concepts are the same. If you don't like the core concept, you never will or you have to be in a particular mood to play that character.


And I agree with your suggestion of CBRP or PM rps Moon. So why isn't that more of a focus then "You're stuck with this character for 2 months. Have fun Troll "

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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:59 am

Mega. Surely you see that you're approaching this argument from the extreme end? You're the person who is never happy with a character. You frequently change. This is not the norm. Many of us manage to keep characters for years. So saying "Creating a character that you stick with takes a lot of trial and error." simply isn't true for a number of people.

I'm the opposite end of the scale. I don't think the hoops you have to jump through here are enough. It's certainly not driving people away. I've seen sites with much stricter standards thrive. I rather think any new people are put off more by perceived exclusion and delay than what you describe. They're more concerned with getting their current thread moving than whether their character 'jives'.

All this rule does is make people think twice before making impulsive decisions. You seem to see your characters as a prison that the mods are burdening you with. That's very much not how I consider mine. o.o

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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:18 am

Actually Dart after MUCH trial and error I'm quite happy with how my current roster is progressing. Daniel has the potential for some more dramatic kind of rps in the future but being so young and naive he can still do a social thread (which I usually get bored with quickly). Henry despite his activities being mostly background solo stuff, is still fun and enjoyable because I love the fact he uses sign language to cast his spells XD and the fact he's mute which makes other people have trouble understanding him also amuses me.

Even though Chessa isn't a full character, I also enjoy using her in that AU thread and the occasion she's in a thread with Daniel.

Did I have a clear and well thought out idea going into their creation? No I did not. I literally had an idea inspired by what I was obsessed with at the time and molded it the way I wanted. I used the experience I gained from much trial and error until I created something "I" was pleased with and continue to enjoy using.

And clearly it's normal for people to make characters and drop them Dart, otherwise there wouldn't be this policy in effect would there? :3

This "exclusion and delay" you speak of fits this policy. Because if they don't like the character but can't get rid of it, they still have to wait two months before dropping it. If they can't get through writer's block or w/e it is about the character they dislike, then they just twiddle their thumbs. This policy creates exclusion and delay.

A new member is limited to one character starting out Dart. If they are shackled with that character for two months it may aswell be a prison then xP

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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:22 am

Well, here's how I view the rule:

(New member scenario)

New member: Awesome! I finished making my character and they're finally approved! I can finally show his awesome they are! (This is a simulation, I'm not saying all new members will think this, but most probably will)

(Timeskip a few months and some thread action later)

New member: Hey, I tried many times, but I feel my character wasn't really made to developed, I can honestly say that I just made them because they had qualities that appealed to me when I started..Well, I was planning on dropping them, they had a good run I feel, but I want to make a character that actually has room for development.

Staff member: Well that's fantastic! That'll be two months, please

New member: Pardon?

Staff: You have to wait two months before making a new character, sorry

New member: Well geez...What am I supposed to do with no character for two whole months?

Staff: Chat box roleplay?

New member: Or I could probably just find another site during that time so I can actually rp... I already had the app made because I was really excited about having a character that could possibly be rounded, but I guess I can't use em yet, I guess I could tweek them a bit during the time frame, but I'm probably going to be on another site roleplaying..

(Best case scenario: The New member remembers to come back to post the character. Worst case scenario: The new member just decided to stay on the other site they found)


(Veteran member scenario)

Veteran: Well, my character had a glorious time, but I feel that they should be retired, I don't want to kill them off, but I think that their journey has had a satisfying end, I also feel it's time for a new hero/villain/neutral to get a chance, I've had this idea stored for a while (perhaps the child of the previous character continues a legacy?), and I'm really excited about it! New members coming in also means a new story to be told as well, and I want my new character to be apart of it.

Staff: (Have also been rping with the veteran member for a long time, they know how they act and that they're dependable) Well that sounds cool! That'll be two months!

Veteran: Oh...Well..I would've expected that veterans would be trusted enough to drop a character without dropping the others willy nilly....Especially since the others, though very developed, aren't at their end yet.

Staff: Yeah, sorry!

Veteran: (Would probably feel some type of way about being treated like new member) Uh....Sure..... (Veteran member feels a bit bummed out they can't fully jump into their idea, and know that CBRPs aren't as satisfying as an actual rp, they may be able to man through it, or they might be unable to get motivated for that character in the wait)


Just my two cents... If not get rid of it, at least lessen the time, or have a strike system...
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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:51 am

I do agree with the two month wait as from the mod perspective they do make sense, as I've went threw numerous character apps before I stuck with Mimir (Which I am still proud of). However I do feel the wait as both of my character [xerneas] are stuck in limbo with Izzy on leave thus preventing Mimir joining the titans to continue and xerneas joining the hive which is in limbo. While I did started to like my second character thanks to Moon I still wished to drop Xerneas. Again I understand the purpose, my advice is that it could be shorten to one month.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:44 am

I wouldn't even set it to a month. I'd set it to like, maybe 2 weeks? A month would be max for me, but I have a tendency to make characters because I just genuinely like to make apps. It's a pleasure for me to do. This causes me to jump around characters a bit more than I'd like, which almost makes it feel like the rule was set in place specifically because of me. Which is hilarious because no one even approached me with the idea.

I'm more than happy to put in the work on multiple apps, but this rule kind of prevents that entirely.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:56 pm

Guys guys guys! Read what Bloo has put "The first thing I'd like to address here, and any other mod can correct me if I'm wrong... the two month "ban" isn't the right word. You can only drop a character if they've been around for at least two months. Once they're dropped, you can app another one right away."


So your scenario, Tach, would go:

New member: Awesome! I finished making my character and they're finally approved! I can finally show his awesome they are!

(Timeskip a few months and some thread action later)

New member: Hey, I tried many times, but I feel my character wasn't really made to developed, I can honestly say that I just made them because they had qualities that appealed to me when I started... Well, I was planning on dropping them, they had a good run I feel, but I want to make a character that actually has room for development.

Staff member: Well that's fantastic! You've had it for two months. So you can switch immediately.

New member: Awesome! That is entirely reasonable. This time I'll plan the character more carefully. At least I know it's almost impossible to make a character so bad that I can't spend a minimum of two months with it.


And that the rule is here doesn't prove the behaviour it is typical, Mega. There are a few outliers who did this repeatedly and thus forced action from the Staff. If everyone did it then everyone would think as you do.

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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:55 pm

Actually it is possible, even if you dress up a character application all nice and organized, the character can still be unlikable to the creator, so new members would probably still be skeptical about two months, DD, think about it, you only have one character, you can't really get motivated to rp them because they can't really develop and you'd rather change them, but now you're stuck with a character that you can't really get into for two whole months, that's basically the same as not having a character at all, because why would you continue to use a character that you're dissatisfied with? And you'd be trying to force yourself to post, meaning not very quality posts.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:28 pm

I generally give new members a bit of leeway. The rule is there to stop sudden impulse. Not cause of Izzy, though she does get sudden impulse a lot.

I've done my best to give everyone a good amount of character slots. I've gotten it from four to five.

I like the points raised in this discussion. But as it is right now I don't think it's hurting anything, because it's covering up a lo of other opportunities for error. Maybe the person that made the rule thought it put a lot of extra work on the mods. I beg to differ; I prefer the mods to have plenty of work to do. There's four mods and then me, and at least two of us like to be SWAMPED with work, because we can handle it.

Be that as it may, you have to put a lot of thought into an app when you're making it. And you can get a second character slot when you reach a hundred posts. Asking for 100 posts in roleplay or out is perfectly reasonable. And if you can't learn to focus your inspiration to make sure you want to play them, I think some reinforcement to that point is fine.

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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:02 pm

Before I sum up what I as a concerned member would like to see since I have no actual power to invoke change personally I'd like to point something else out Dee. Let as assume after this member toughed it out for the two months (or simply became absent for those two months because hey, no reason to stay) and made this "planned" character.

Now let's jump ahead... say around three or less weeks. The new character's activity starts to decline not because of a lost of interest or the owner not liking how they turned out. The activity starts to decline because half the time, the threads they started/joined start dying left and right. You and I both know bad that sucks. Now this continues on and starts frustrating the member to the point where they feel like they have to make a new character just to try and get SOMETHING going. BUT they can't because they have to wait for that character to be around for TWO, months.

My point in this that character drops are not only caused by "impulse builds" but also due to threads dying because one or two people in them vanish off the face of the planet, or pop in for five minutes to prove they still exist and then vanish again. Yes the member could just ask for someone else to thread with but if they're already in a good number of threads why would/should they increase their load?

But THIS behavior has yet to be prevented in anyway. I say make a special member group that cannot access the rp section of the forum. Offenders can be placed in this group for... let's say two months because that's clearly fair and just. Then after two months the offender can rejoin us in the land of make believe <3


Going back on topic, it looks like some of us still agree that the 2 month thing is too extreme and needs to be lowered. Three weeks to a month seems more acceptable.

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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:23 pm

There's already rules in place to punish people like this. If they go inactive for a month then their apps are placed in Inactive and require reapproval.

Yes, some people agree with you. Some. Far from a majority, especially in consideration of the members on the entire site as opposed to only the ones in this thread.

You complain about having to wait two months after making a character to drop it. I don't see why. You only did half the work. We had to go to the trouble to approve it, twice, to make sure it was balanced enough for our site. This rule is completely fair.

Let's do a quick math problem. An active member, though quite stretching the term, in my opinion would post once every three days. Two months is roughly 60 days. Are you telling me you can't make at least twenty posts as a character over the course of two months? No, no...I'm not catering to this. If this is recognized as an issue then I'll put more thought into it. But to me it seems like this problem is nothing of the sort and you guys are being paranoid.

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PostSubject: Re: 2 month character ban policy   Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:36 pm

Setting it to two weeks would be absurd, that's way too little of time to even get the hang of a character. The site is very lenient as it is, two months is nothing compared to what I've seen. Say you do have a special case and the new member is trying hard to get into threads but nothing is happening for them, sure we could probably bend the rules a bit. However, I have yet to see that happen, this is all on the extreme end of things, having a character for 2 months then being able to drop it immediately still seems fine to me. You aren't being "punished" for having a character, it is your choice for choosing that character and developing them.
Maybe the scenario would be different if we were a bunch of business men trying to make sure that we keep every person we get or else our business will plummet, but in the end this is just a hobby. This rule encourages people to take their time with characters and not make impulse decisions. They could always go through modifications to their character if they'd like, it's not like that isn't an option.

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Teen Titans Legacy :: Medical Bay-
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